camillus knife identification

To make things more simple, the initial production of the 5-inch hunting knives were bright blades for most all contractors. I like that, but cannot figure out what type of knife that may be. Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. Additionally, OKC is the only company selling this knife commercially. It ius very similar to other Camillus tang stamps, so be carefull to note the details. Shameful right after the factory closes what comes out. Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. Later, when we received individual survival and flotation gear, the knife scabbard was sometimes sewn into the pocket where a .38 special was stored during Vietnam days on the survival vest. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. http://usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_7.htm. Bright blade (no property mark) initial production referred to as a 5-inch hunting knife, bright blade USN now referred to as the Mark 1, USN ricasso stamped with parked blade (corrosion resistant treatment compliance), late procurements with applied MARK 1 ricasso stampings. At a time like this, when not all dealers can be trusted, you need to be on guard. Thanks for filling in the blanks. auction. This is the early AAC Any The design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers. I will highly recommend this site! This knife fits in with He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. forces. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. I know how well "Orvet" makes customs. You have a very scarce Camillus MARK 1. It is assumed that such information resides in the archives of the companies that have manufactured the knife as well as the files of the DoD. Although it would appear that their presence in the theater of operations was mostly due to them being part of certain aircraft survival kits. While researching this knife I discovered that Camillus, the same manufacturer as the iconic Kabar fighting knife, was the main producer of these knives. True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. Many GIs bought these knives and carried them during the war in Vietnam, including my father, who bought on in the exchange in Takhli, Thailand, and wore it during missions over North Vietnam. Thanks for the feedback. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. I appreciate the vote of confidence . Any Further Details or assistance is greatly appreciated. the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife There is a variation of a Parkerized blade Camillus MARK 1 with no branch of service markings, (Cole III, pg. Most knives I seen are marked 10998 or some other number not marked on my blade. Ontarios model became the Aircrew Survival and Egress Knife, System (ASEK) based on the published requirements by the U.S. Army. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. IMHO, both knives fit into the category of Navy Mark1 knives. This is when Camillus re-designed their screw top pommel. If you can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives. I have never seen that variation. contracts. Thanks! Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). Mine is an old C make still kept in my truck. I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. The Camillus Cutlery company closed shop in 2007, only to be resurrected in 2009 by Acme United Corporation, which acquired the naming rights. There was a spin off copy cat comp. Regards, If you would like, I could send you a photo of this knife. When speaking with them, make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current This knife looks a lot like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real quick. The only way to stay in the knife business and keep running a profit was to start making and selling them domestically. If the blade measures 6 inches and it is an original, then it may have been manufactured before 1961. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. Way cool! As originally designed it had a 6", saw back blade. that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal where possible. I had suspected that was the case but did not have any evidence. It is marked just U.S.N. The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. Bone stag and CR guard made in With a decline in the number of such people, it becomes more challenging to get original information on what a ka-bar knife is, and when it made the market. This is it. S-4007 hand marked on the blade, Guardless and serrated The Air Force Survival Knife is an excellent knife. J-7 marked Kent with Sportsman etching and stagged That way, you have a more realistic approach to what you can expect and you dont beat yourself up if its looking harder than usual to pin a date on that fine, historic knife. December 15, 2017 in EDGED WEAPONS. Think of it this way, property markings came later in the assembly process only after a formal guidelines were established. factory or used by them. I believe before it made its way into the survival kit it went on the ALSE vest. I have little knowledge on the Use of it in Vietnam, that said, I cant find much details. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. The blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the guard seems rather dull. This was where he first got a taste for cutlery, which would later shape the man he became and the company he launched. The topic got side tracked here a little bit with the USAAC hunting knives, those with the fuller blade. It is further described as "Used in all types of emergency kits." One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. Great knife for camping or scouting I carried mine on walks in the woods. However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. with steel domed rivets. Your email address will not be published. Your guidelines seem to contradict themselves:The knife has a thin, pinned pommelWW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinnedWhich is it: they are pinned or they are not?Please let me know, than you. room when the company was auctioned off. We have many investment grade pieces available. It was later made with an etch on the blade "Sportsman" The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. Finally, the knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a sufficient edge in a land survival situation. The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. I hope this is the right place to make this post.sorry if not. The Camillus S1765P USAF Utility Knife Tobias Gibson 7.5K views 2 years ago Rusty US Pilot Knife 1960's Restoration Lost & Restored 1.2M views 1 year ago Five US Military Pocket Knives from. I became curious about the background and history of this knife about a year ago. and the empty draws. originals and always set off an alarm when looking for an original It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. Here is an earlier & longer pilot (aircrew) survival knife by Camillus aka, the Folding Bolo- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete a.jpg Army Air Corp Emergency Machete.jpg Here it is folded- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete j.jpg You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. These knives became popular with outdoorsman. by Colonel666 Wed May 29, 2013 10:48 pm, Post Did you recently find a Camillus knife, and youd like to know what era it came from? Appreciating the persistence you put into your site and in depth information you provide. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. You are using an out of date browser. Enjoy! Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. The same is true for family businesses that have been selling knives for generations as they tend to have such literature lying around. An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. quick. If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. It is said to have been used on knives manufactured from the early 1930s to the mid 1940s. We can go down the list for all the contractors. At the end of the war, the decision to ramp up capacity paid off as Camillus could now make its knives and still churn others out under contract. The similarities to Mark I knives are obvious, but they were procured and manufactured under different contracts and specifications. It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. Q30: WW II Prototype made for the 6 inch Hunting knife I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. Dale AAPK Administrator After all, we can also use the form of the knife to estimate what era it came in. I agree. So far I have not found the S card for S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, 5684: This is the WW II USMC blade marked knife in the In particular, some questions that arise with this knife are those regarding two specific features of the knife: the saw-toothed spine and the two holes in the handguard. Saunders knives; and a few more knives under contract. This design was accepted, and the military specifications documents were updated to reflect Marbles concept in MIL-K-8662A (04 November 1957). generate quite a few questions so we hope this is a help to a few folks. These knives should be professionally serviced by a The contracts were 1942, & 1943. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. I have a Camillus USA 5 fixed blade knife that was issued to me between 1964-1965 as a flight crew member in Patrol Squadron 8, VP-8 Anti submarine warfare squadron. They got into every kind of game and having different manufacturers along the line meant that they all didnt have to stick to the same design philosophy. S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass pins marked Kent S-6541 marked, Another as above As above with different tang markings, still a Kent Heavily used Camillus hunter, possible returned to the In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. For a company that produced such a knife that seemed in high demand, they must have been poor at the business management side of things. All of these make the recipe for a truly great knife that deserves our attention. This sample made 1939. The serrated spine was designed to cut through the aluminum skin surrounding the airframes of Korean and Vietnam War-era aircraft. I may be wrong but it may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia. Very nice! It doesn't sit flush my guess is it was replaced. If you dont find your stamp and logo from there, use the official stamp/ logo guide from the official Ka-bar website as seen below: There is a lot that you can tell about the Ka-bar knife from the markings on the blade. Bear7, Heres another variant knife that Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes. It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. MK2 on the other. Many of us have been exposed to the fixed blade knife known popularly as the Air Force Survival Knife. COStraight lineOLEAN, N.Y, and USA.1912 1920UNION CUTLERY CO.Straight lineOLEAN, N. Y1912 1930UNIONRound rectangular boxNil1914 1926KEENWELL CUT COStraight lineOLEAN, N. Y1920 1930KEENWELL CUT COStraight lineOLEAN, N.Y; Ka-Bar; Model number1928 1932KA-BARStraight lineUSA`1930 1940OLCUTStraight lineStainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y1935 1945KabarStraight lineUnfilled star1950 1970. The M3 was originally designated for issue to soldiers not otherwise equipped with a bayonet. Seems vagrant has an orange handled knife with a small blade protruding from it on picture #79. It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. Phil, Enjoy and See you on the trail! this out before you buy. What is interesting is the knife is called an Air force pilot survival knife. Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. 5683 L75: The Camillus Mark 1 prototype reference piece. As a flight equipment Marine. Phillip; So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. I have a one of the knives that came out of a survival kit. Is it a genuine vintage or merely a reproduction? The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. markings on the knives or the special way the knife was built. Knife Center.com has them in stock. This is the knife as adopted, kept for the Another part of the group has pins marked Kent, As above with different tang markings, still a Kent. Your email address will not be published. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. However, this was not the end of the aging Air Force Survival Knife. The handle should fold out to cover the entire blade edge. These rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea. Im assuming the knife is an earlier production but, as its a 5 inch blade, it has to be after 1961. by ken6 Wed May 29, 2013 11:11 pm, Post Look at these two knives in the photo below. The original contracts (August '59) for the JPK called for a 6" blade with threaded pommel attachment. Companies interested in gaining the government contract received these requirements and submitted proposals for consideration based on those requirements. (222) $59.00. I carried it for next 8 years on my. It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. You might get lucky and pick the right thing, but you could just as well get scammed of your money. These items Otherwise, it would be much easier to go through their files to find out which Ka-bar knives were made when. inch Mark 2 with a M3 pommel. The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. Im happy to see that youre entering the world of knife collection. There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife), Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor. Furthermore, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system. The others that I've seen have the later arched tang stamp. Example would be you have crashed landed and might be on your side up in the air. An unmarked prototype hunter with Stagged Rosewood and is the only one that survived the Marines. Knife. Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my Google account. Before this requirement, knives of several types were procured by the individual branches of the military and dispensed to their members. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. This was one of Made to cut overhead upside Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. Thanks, Dwain. Thanks for contacting me. and took them with me when the auction was over. The large guard is nickel J5 Forest King etched with prototype J-5 on the blade. The one I have comes with a green pouch that went on the vest and the leather sheath was sewn into the pouch. forces were gone by 1973. To put things in context, it is estimated that there have been, at least, 200 different Ka-bar knife stamps in use since the late 1890s. Quality knives and tools with lowest prices. While some other companies have taken over the design and started to make modern versions, there is simply nothing like the older units that first came out under the original Klaas company. A German himself, and having spent enough time in the U.S.A. to know the market landscape, this business venture was not difficult for him. current model. What is the white dot on the handle? I viewed the ransacked show room Maybe you can help me out here. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. by MITCH RAPP Mon May 27, 2013 5:42 pm, Post Thus, finding ways of reducing the bulk of the Aviation Life Support Equipment (ALSE) assisted in the overall weight considerations for flying. If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. Do you have any additional information on what the 6-89 is and how it fits in the history. I hope this helps. and steel domed rivets but with a different grind from above. Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them. I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. Here is an image of my fullered 5 inch blade next to the saber ground blade knife. I believe youre more interested in dating the vintage ones, though, so the other era guides on that list are best suited to your needs. If you dont have both the repro and original side by side, you might not be able to tell the difference sometimes. joined the originals, now we have all that were present at the time of the Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. Keep up the great work. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. Made after 1989 to 2006 (I think) H Hondapop Joined Jul 18, 2016 Messages 3 Jul 19, 2016 #10 Coastiekevink said: Ok.I'll ask! Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. It was made from a spring off a model T. The sheath was made from a leather belt off a steam tractor. It was probably stashed there by some kid whose dad was a Navy pilot. This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. It is currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA. Carried in Vietnam we doubt it. Western made two: one with a 6-inch blade, the G46-6, and one with a 5-inch blade, the G46-5. storage. There were of course Marines stationed on the base. Your email address will not be published. Likewise, dont just take their dates for it. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. Where did she find it? Otherwise, have someone who does. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it how they were found from poor I have a 5 knife marked Ontario 10-76. Thus, this knife became obsolete for its original intended use when the majority of military aircraft incorporated composite materials. All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post The original design of this 5" blade is, I believe, a pre-war Marbles design which was known as the "Ideal", a #45. with their design. In the end, it proved to be a logistical nightmare, however, Robeson did make the switch. I, too, have one that has a small Japan stamped on the blade at the hilt. Sears Roebucks in 9/26/1941. Like every other knife Ive dated, the Camillus knives are challenging in their way. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. I have no idea how long it had been sitting there. The USMC solicited bids from several knife The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. 5665 J86: Prototype dated 3/25/1942 made for the Army By Can you say more about how Ontario played a role in the Survival Knifes evolution ? knife. Entertaining and informing. by Colonel666 Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post I have 2 Camillus Knives that are similar but different. Has can openers, awl, driver. These two knives are commonly identified as WW2 pilots knives. Besides showing you how to date a Camillus knife properly, I also give some tips to avoid falling into the fake vintage Camillus knife scam. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. survival kit knife with straight line marking. 1 2 3 Items 1 - 12 of 27 Show per page Sort By Camillus Bombat 6" Pocket Knife #19484 $17.99 Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. The 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted. Hi John, Camillus used different sized stamps on their MK1s, believe there were 3 distinct sizes. by coffeecup Sun May 26, 2013 9:03 am, Post That same year, the Marble-Arms Corporation (now known as Marbles) began work on designing their prototype for the survival knife based on the government specifications. Made for Sears & Roebucks. I have sent you an email to see how I may be able to help. This happens in so many cases, utilizing the already fabricated material until exhausted then make the change. Never knew that opinions could be this varied. Woolworths, S3388: When the Marines formed the ParaMarines they needed a The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. The sheath shall be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-271, The sheath leather shall be 8/64-inch-thick. It is marked U.S.N over MARK I. steel domed rivets. Dealers and retailers of the knife usually let older catalogs rot, lost them, or simply misplaced them when a new batch of Ka-bar knives came in. Curiously enough, my knife does not have the Camillus trademark name stamp anywhere on the knife or the sheath. One Side of the blade should have the Camillus Knife brand and the identification should have the blade number. Rosewood and steel domed rivets. Kent Sportsman's knife with stagged Rosewood grips and This prototype is date 5/13/1954. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. sactroop- Just noticed the lower Camillus above the stamped sheath has a very well defined, scooped out fuller. I had the Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. A Short History of the U. S. Army M-1950 Lensatic Compass Major Hykr, Knife Survival System: The Ka-Bar Becker Champion BK2 Major Hykr, 3 Outstanding Survival Knives For Backpackers Major Hykr, Air Force S u r v i v a l K n i f e | norsedefense, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers Major Hykr, The Stories Behind 7 Infamous U.S. Military Knives | Fishing, https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife, Best Survival Knife of 2022: Dont Hit The Trail Without It! After more than two decades (1897) in this business, importation costs for the knives were getting higher and wiping out Adolphs profits.

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